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The Wiretapped Case of the Bogus Presidency of Philippines' Gloria Arroyo ("Hello Garci" in English)

Gloria Arroyo: Bogus & fraud Philippine President, says "Hello Garci"

The lying Press Secretary holds two "Hello Garci" tapes

Sen. 'Noted' Kiko Pangilinan seated; beside some other conspiring canvassers?

Fernando Poe Jr. - the genuine 14th President of the Philippines, based on "Hello Garci"

Victim province of poll cheating, tool of a bogus presidency

"Arrobo." Poll cheat should go to jail?

'Hello Garci' voice analysis

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ON JUNE 24, 2004, a stealth operation of grave national impact was conducted by the Congress of the Philippines. Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo, the controversial sitting President who took power after the popularly elected Joseph Estrada was deposed in the undemocratic EDSA II conspiracy in January 2001, was proclaimed as the victor of the 2004 May 11 elections in a manner that defied the spirit of electoral victory and the essence of a "proclamation." At around 3:30 am--yes, Virginia, at such a still-dusky morning hour when most Filipinos are generally still tucked in their beds--Senate President Franklin Drilon and House Speaker Jose de Venecia raised the hands of Arroyo and proclaimed her "President-elect."

What explains the surreptitious proclamation that ensured the people who were supposed to have given the petite Arroyo the mandate of electoral victory (over "1 M" lead over opposition bet Fernando Poe Jr.) would not be able to share in a supposedly glorious moment is the conspiratorial story of cheating and cover-up sealed at the very halls of the Philippine Congress.

Up until that unprecedented pre-dawn proclamation, Congress was abuzzed with heated deliberations and debates over allegation of massive fraud during the May 11, 2004 polls. The predominantly pro-administration legislators, however, swiftly turned down every protest issue and argument raised by the lawyers and Congress supporters of Poe with the oft-repeated words "Noted" expressed by Senate canvassing committee head Sen. Francis Pangilinan. In the end, Congress, which had turned itself into a joint congressional canvassing panel, elected not to determine the real winner in the 2004 Presidential race by refusing to open the Certificates of Canvass from a few questioned provinces. The frivolous rationale given by the administration allies who made up the majority in Congress was as anomalous as the stealth manner of the 3:30 AM proclamation: it would take a "long time" to finish the canvassing.

Never mind if the questioned COC's would show the real victor voted by the Filipino people. Apparently, the administration solons could not bear to delay the proclamation of their "president-elect"--their presidential candidate they have been allied with since 2001. So, with swift haste and dubious timing, the search for the real victor in the presidential race was killed. Congress proclaimed the controversial Arroyo as "President-elect," to be inaugurated as the 14th President six days later.

The Wiretapped Case of Electoral Fraud

Truth, even political truth, has a way of making itself known, however. Within exactly 12 months since the allegations of massive electoral fraud, tapes of wiretapped conversations would reveal the truth behind the apparently systematic efforts of Congress to cover up the May 11, 2004 and install a bogus president.

The tapes that have come to be known as the "Hello Garci" tapes primarily show the conversations between Gloria Macapagal Arroyo and elections commissioner Virgilio Garcillano in connection with operations surrounding the May 11 elections and vote canvassing. The operations revealed by the tapes were designed to cheat Arroyo's way towards continued hold on power and rob FPJ of electoral victory. The tapes around 3 hours long were revealed to the public through certain hostile members of the Philippine military. They show other voices, including certain military loyalist, and reveal an apparently broad conspiracy of electoral fraud perpetuated by Malacanang, the Commission of Elections and its "citizen's arm" NAMFREL.

The authenticity of the tapes, particularly the authenticity of the voices of Arroyo and Garcillano, has been verified by the companies Uniquest Pty (Australia) and Voice Identification (United States). Uniquest's Brian Lovell, forensic voice expert of note, expressed the professional opinion that "there is no evidence that would suggest that the conversations have been altered in any way from their original recorded form."

The following are the transcripts* of the more "telling" selections of the Hello Garci tapes, alternatively called Gloriagate tapes. The person addressed as "Ma'am" in the conversations, or "Code 1" and "PGMA" by the narrator refers to Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo; the "Gary" in the tapes is no other than the (former) Commissions on Elections officer Virgilio Garcillano. Discussed in the tapes are vote padding and manipulations in the counting , including those on COC's, and the role played by Commission on Elections (COMELEC) officers, National Movement for Free Elections or (NAMFREL), Philippine Army Generals, and "allies" in Congress in defrauding opposition standard bearer FPJ of victory.

Gloriagate No. 2 Delay Senatorial Canvassing
(Conversation between Gary and a female on 11:25 26 May 2004)

Gary: Hello, Ma'am
Female: Hello...,
...Is it possible that there will be a delay in the, the senatorial canvassing until after the voting on the rules tonight?
Gary: On the rules? Ah yes...
Female: ...in the Senate, so there will be no fight. Between two allies, this
...one will of course get mad, the other one, will also get mad for sure...

(line cut)

Gloriagate No. 5 "More Than 1M"
(Conversation between male and female on 29 09:43 hotel 2004)

Female: Hello...
Gary: Hello, Ma'am, good morning again.
Female: Yes, yes.
Gary: OK Ma'am, s/he is higher but will be compensated in Lanao.
Female: So, will I still lead by more than one M., overall?
Gary: Ahh, more or less, it's the advantage Ma'am.
Female: Yes...
Gary: The turnout will appear to be the same. Female: It cannot be less than one M?
Gary: Yes, ma...
...we will try to push that for that. But as of the other day, 902.
Female: Which is why!
Gary: Yes, and then uh, if we can uh, get more in, uh, Lanao...
Female: Is it not yet done? Gary: Yes, not yet supposedly...
...there are still, uhh, the...
...to arrive sev... seven municipalities.
Female: Ah ok, yes, yes...
Gary: Alright
Female: OK, OK, yes, ...OK...

Gloriagate No. 7 Made to Cheat
(Conversation between Gary and One unidentified female believed to be PGMA on 29 1400hrs. May 2004)

Gary: Hello ma'am,
Good afternoon...
PGMA: Yes, yes...
PGMA: According to the other camp, they are planning among themselves (that) they say They are said to have affidavits in their possession--
--from teachers and Board of Canvassers (saying) that they witnessed and were made to cheat.
Gary: I do not have...
where could they have...?
that one earlier, what you mentioned on Pangutaran, it's like this:
it's true that, uh, that what appeared there, FPJ was reversed
...but the canvassing in the province...
...the results--what were put down were also the original - the original results were also the ones put down because of the words and figures were not changed.
PGMA: Mmmm, mmmm.
Gary: It is because they - Gen. Abahacon, is not yet an expert in such a thing, partly they're the ones who did there
PGMA: Mmmm
Gary: uh...The election officer of that, of Pangutaran explained to me also, uh...
PGMA: Mmmm.
Gary:But in the canvass, the Provincial Board of Canvassers said, what was done…but in the canvass, what were instructed by the Provincial Board of Canvassers, were the ones I did ...also his/her original votes, which were counted so there is nothing more...

(line cut).

Gloriagate No. 08 The Addition
(Conversation between Gary and an unidentified female... believed to be... PGMA on 31, 23:17 hotel May 2004)

Gary: Hello, Ma'am.
PGMA: Hello, also the what, the other camp, th...
...they're trying to get their NAMFREL copies of the Municipal COCs.
Gary: From NAMFREL ?
NAMFREL copies ho?
PGMA: Uh-uh
Gary: Ah, there is no more Ma'am, the NAMFREL is OK towards us,
...they are now sympathetic to us...
PGMA: Yes, yes but with this information, does NAMREL match our tally?
Gary: Yes.
PGMA: But that is that... ...the addition, the addition...
Gary: Yes, we, uhh,
...will get in advance uh, our personal copy if that's why they
GMA: Yes, yes, yes.
Gary: OK...
...alright, Ma'am.

Gloriagate No. 13 Maguindanao
(Conversation between PGMA and Gary on 06 1900 hours June '04)

PGMA: Hello.
Gary: Hello Ma'am,
Good evening.
You called?
PGMA: Yes...
...yes. According to Teng, it should perhaps be best if we can ensure that the documents in Maguindanao are consistent.
Gary: Yes, Ma'am. Uhh...yung uh, that...
...it is not really so much of a problem in Maguindanao...
...uh, but what was it that you texted last night as to the presence of uh...fake uh... precincts and I'm supposed to be the mastermind?
PGMA: Yes, yes...
Gary: But Ma'am what Ma'am.. I can't understand what, uh they are trying to drive at... when, uh... 120 days before elections the precincts were already established.
PGMA Ah OK, OK
Gary: Yes.
PGMA: Perhaps what, maybe it is just one shot in the dark. But I'm just letting you know everything I find out so we can always make uh...
...the appropriate remedies, o, yes?
Gary: Yes.
PGMA: OK.
Gary: Uh, General uh, Lomibao is already in Zamboanga...
PGMA: Yes, yes.
Gary: You can tell all the people uh, around us uh, talk to him...
...so that (will be able) uh, they will be able to prevent who is going to work.
PGMA: OK, ok...
...ok, alright. Thank you.

The tapes--and transcripts--speak for themselves. The role of Congress in the cheating or cover-up during the 2004 presidential elections is suggested, if not revealed in the tapes. In Gloriagate tape # 2, Arroyo asks to delay the senatorial canvassing "until after the voting on the rules." Tape # 7 contains the discussion between Arroyo and Garcillano regarding how an instance of the doctoring of votes was not realized at the level of provincial COCs because "the words and figures were not changed" by a General who was "not yet expert" in cheating. Juxtaposing this "Hello Garci" information with how the Joint Congressional Committee blocked the opening of the contested provincial COCs back in 2004, the sinister role played by decadent members of Congress in proclaiming a fraudulent Philippine President becomes clear.

It has been four, tumultuous and corrupt-laden years since the stealth 2004 proclamation of the bogus 14th President of the Philippine Republic. A master of patronage politics, Arroyo has weathered the storms brought about by her illegitimate mandate "not once," but many times over. In fact, she has survived the public outcry that followed the disclosure of the wiretapped conversations, although the disgust over Arroyo's continued illegitimate hold on power is far from over.

Today, June 30, 2008 is actually the fourth anniversary of the proclamation of the 2004 bogus Philippine President. I have decided to give her this Hello Garci "relived" article as reminder that she will always be the Fake and Bogus occupant of Malacanang to the majority of the Filipino people.

*The tapes have been translated from mixed Tagalog and English into pure English

_______________

References
: HELLO, GARCI? : Transcript of Three-Hour Tape. Philippine Center for Investigative Journalism Site. http://www.pcij.org/blog/wp-docs/hellogarci-transcript-final.pdf

'Hello Garci' wiretapped tape collection YouTube Site.. http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=C694F83058EA891A&search_query=jesusabernardo

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{"commentId":2090957,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}

Click on this Video Player of the select "Hello Garci" wiretapped conversations.

{"commentId":2090957,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
  • 4 votes
Reply#1 - Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:58 PM EDT
{"commentId":2092744,"authorDomain":"SVForbes"}

An intriguing article.

{"commentId":2092744,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"SVForbes"}
  • 4 votes
Reply#2 - Tue Jul 1, 2008 8:35 AM EDT
{"commentId":2095974,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}

Thanks, Shaun. I was thinking those on the Western hemisphere could have some interest in the English translation of the notorious "Hello Garci" tapes (I heard even the Pope has heard of that political and electoral scandal).

{"commentId":2095974,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
  • 4 votes
#2.1 - Tue Jul 1, 2008 3:08 PM EDT
{"commentId":2155421,"authorDomain":"rqcemanes"}
rqcemanesDeleted
{"commentId":2168104,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}

Thanks, rqcemanes. I'll try to keep it up.

{"commentId":2168104,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
  • 3 votes
#2.3 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:52 PM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":2093853,"authorDomain":"kodanda"}

A well and profoundly articulated and widely researched article. Now I can feel how genuine your long propagated disdain for Arroyo, Jesusa. You are writing from your heart, I see

{"commentId":2093853,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"kodanda"}
  • 4 votes
Reply#3 - Tue Jul 1, 2008 11:13 AM EDT
{"commentId":2095950,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
A well and profoundly articulated and widely researched article. Now I can feel how genuine your long propagated disdain for Arroyo, Jesusa. You are writing from your heart, I see

Thank you kdpgrahi for that post of discernment. Everything you wrote here hits the nails right on my heart and mind.

As for the kind of research involve, I guess that's my objectivity style. After all, Arroyo's propaganda machinery is one of the best in the world and only strong research can offset that. Either that, or that the Filipinos are so gullible or so manipulated. Then again, she's probably just equipped with the gift of Satanic power. Hahaha.

{"commentId":2095950,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
  • 5 votes
#3.1 - Tue Jul 1, 2008 3:06 PM EDT
{"commentId":2170974,"authorDomain":"ntq"}
Either that, or that the Filipinos are so gullible or so manipulated.

The latter sounds more realistic :-) And that goes to all the contemporary nations under current administrations worldwide ( the relative exceptions). In other words, we're almost all corrupted in one way or another; thus, our rulers.

{"commentId":2170974,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"ntq"}
  • 1 vote
#3.2 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:33 PM EDT
{"commentId":2172403,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
In other words, we're almost all corrupted in one way or another; thus, our rulers.

Yes, so true. While we're here on earth, no one can be entirely clean But there are bounds of what should be acceptable... something like the now-famous phrase here: "moderate greed."

In the case of Gloria, corruption under her administration is boundless, and through her unscrupulous use of patronage politics, she has practically made Filipinos thinks that power grab is OK, electoral fraud is OK and plunder of the nation is OK, so long as you can keep people in tow.

I refuse, however, to believe that all Filipinos are already corrupted and that principles are no longer in fashion.

{"commentId":2172403,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
  • 2 votes
#3.3 - Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:22 AM EDT
{"commentId":2172858,"authorDomain":"ntq"}
I refuse, however, to believe that all Filipinos are already corrupted

Certainly not with you as a live proof. ;-)

{"commentId":2172858,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"ntq"}
  • 1 vote
#3.4 - Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:02 AM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":2108898,"authorDomain":"rqcemanes"}
rqcemanesDeleted
{"commentId":2110921,"authorDomain":"ntq"}

Jesusa

Smart! That's why I've never had the least faith in this silly "election-party". It's a rediculous show world-wide, and in particular, in the developing countries.

We have a native saying "the moon won't remain behind the clouds too long".

It implies to the nature of truth in a sense that it is bound to be revealed sooner or later. No one can get away with cheating. This is the rule of the game and it applies to your leaders as much as it does to ours. All we have to do is to give them time. The time for them to fade away.

{"commentId":2110921,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"ntq"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#5 - Thu Jul 3, 2008 11:45 AM EDT
{"commentId":2112525,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
... this silly "election-party". It's a rediculous show world-wide, and in particular, in the developing countries.

You got a point there, ntq. Yes, cheating happens. What's so ridiculously vile in the recent case of the PHilippines is that when the presidential elections (of 1998) were absolutely clean, the winner, Pres. Joseph Estrada got deposed by the camp of Arroyo, who subsequently engaged in one of the most infamous electoral fraud scandals in our country's history. How much crazier can it get?

We have a native saying "the moon won't remain behind the clouds too long".

Got to thank you for this--would make a nice addition to my cultural vocabulary of sorts.

No one can get away with cheating. This is the rule of the game and it applies to your leaders as much as it does to ours. All we have to do is to give them time. The time for them to fade away.

I've been praying she doesn't just fade away. She has been sort of a "torturer" of the Filipinos for some 7 years now so I believe she deserves something that comes nearer that discussed in your most recent seed. :)

Thanks ntq and rqcemanes for you insightful comments.

{"commentId":2112525,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
  • 4 votes
#5.1 - Thu Jul 3, 2008 3:33 PM EDT
{"commentId":2113979,"authorDomain":"ntq"}
who subsequently engaged in one of the most infamous electoral fraud scandals in our country's history. How much crazier can it get?

We've been experiencing the process (the fraud) repeatedly during the past 30 years here in Iran. At least the Arroyo Camp don't do it in the Name of God and His Prophet! These scandals have turned into a routine habit amongst the modern politicians. Perhaps, it's been the same way in the past. It's the essence of "power" and, consequently, the nature of "power mongers" (politicians). They take it (dishonesty) as a sign of smartness and the masses approve by their blind support.

so I believe she deserves something that comes nearer that discussed in your most recent seed

But she ain't have no balls! :-0

She has been sort of a "torturer" of the Filipinos for some 7 years now

How come? Name a few instances of what you call 'torture". I need a better picture before I make any judgement.

{"commentId":2113979,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"ntq"}
  • 3 votes
#5.2 - Thu Jul 3, 2008 6:44 PM EDT
{"commentId":2117682,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}

At least the Arroyo Camp don't do it in the Name of God and His Prophet!

NTQ

Actually, that's what makes Arroyo's reign even more sickening. Her camp has used and continued to use God and the church as arguments for her power grab and continued hold on power. If you have read my articles on the Edsa 2 conspiracy, they would give you some idea of how unholy her ascent to power has been.

1. In order to depose Pres. Estrada, she conspired with the late Cardinal Sin who called "blessed" Edsa 2 and described it some how as a "voice of the people is the will of God" or something.
2. During the much bigger pro-Estrada Edsa 3, her camp and Cardinal Sin dismissed the multitude who wanted Arroyo out and Estrada returned to power by calling the masses as "the great unwashed." 3. Arroyo lied, propaganda style, by saying that her decision to run in the 2004 presidential polls (a year earlier, she said she WOULD NOT), was blessed by the POPE, implying that Pope John Paul expressed so during her visit. 4. During the many challenges to her botus presidency, she would tell the people that her decision has been communiucated to her by God while in prayers or something to that effect. 5. In between all these, she would show herself as the picture of Catholic piety and epitome of moral virtues by kneeling, hearing Mass and appearing to be deep in personal communication with God, even when what she actually does is cheat, lie and plunder.

Perhaps, when I have the time, I will provide you with the links to Arroyo's sickening acts of religious hypocrisy and atrocious claims of divine will re her presidency.

But she ain't have no balls!

I don't actually mean castration. I just said something near the punishments discussed in your seed, which include the capital punishment, right?

How come? Name a few instances of what you call 'torture". I need a better picture before I make any judgement.

Kindly read this article Gloria Arroyo at the Helm Seven Years Later: The Sorry State of the Philippines under the EDSA 2 President so you can see how Arroyo's illegitimate rule has made life miserable to Filipinos. In essence, she has made more Filipinos hungrier, more activitists dead, made corruption worse by her most corrupt ways (a national survey by a reputable firm adjudged her the "Most Corrupt President in Philippine History"!) . Moreover, via my articles on EDSA 2, you'll see how she has forced her way into Malacanang twice via deposing the real choice of the people and by cheating Fernando Poe Jr. in 2004, thus robbing the majority of the Filipinos their real choice. Isn't that "torture" enough--both in the physical and moral sense?

{"commentId":2117682,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
  • 3 votes
#5.3 - Fri Jul 4, 2008 11:47 AM EDT
{"commentId":2164966,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

Just a point:

Most of the politicians are corrupt here in the Philippines, I know that erape was corrupt as at one time I was friendly with some of his cronies in Cebu. They where corrupt as Hell and they an he where known cronies of Marco's.

The problem here is the country is run by crooks starting from the top down. Efforts to stop corruption are totally impossible as this is the way the Philippines work. I get mad at the fact that the leaders try to show they are holy than though it reminds me of the Mafia.

By shoving one crook aside one just opens the door for another to move in to take the rich pickings. It would take more than a prayer (if a God exists), it would take a bloody big miracle for things to change and to eradicate this big poverty trap.

Many poor Filipino's have lost heart and want to get far away from this country. Others just give up some knowing they have no chance at bettering them self's because they or their families could not afford to seek further education after elementary school.

I see poverty each and every day and only the very determined get off their backside just like my partner did to find work or sell small amounts of farm products etc and pay for their own education. Wow and that's a big achievement if your just 12 years old thetas why I am so proud of Ann my partner.

Being involved and interested in politics and its analysis in my own country (UK), after eight years of observing how politics work here in the Philippines it took me no time to realise its a completely different kettle of Fish. That prior to the handover by USA there where politicians that rightly said that Filipino's could not govern their own country.

One of the senators here quoted something to the tune of: Its better we create a hell by governing our self's than have a Paradise govern by America. One should always be careful what you wish for, the proof of the pudding many years of self governance.

You may beef about GMA, but when she is off the throne your also be beefing about the new leader and please be careful what you wish for. Out of the frying pan into the fire.

{"commentId":2164966,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
  • 2 votes
#5.4 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:46 AM EDT
{"commentId":2167184,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
One of the senators here quoted something to the tune of: Its better we create a hell by governing our self's than have a Paradise govern by America.

I believe you're referring to former President Manuel Quezon. I totally agree with him.

In a choice between two evils--between a bogus, power grabbing, horrendously immoral and corrupt Arroyo and a colonization of the Philippines--Babelfish, I'll choose Arroyo anytime.

You may beef about GMA, but when she is off the throne your also be beefing about the new leader and please be careful what you wish for. Out of the frying pan into the fire.

I may be an idealist but I sure am grounded on political and social realities. Let me simply a sensible comparison of Estrada and Arroyo so you'll understand the whale of a difference between them--which should explain why someone like me who never, ever voted for Erap prior to 2001 switched to his side come Edsa 2.

It's like this--Arroyo has MUCH MORE sins than Erap against the Filipino people:

1. Gloria Arroyo is the MOST CORRUPT President in Philippine History. Erap's corruption, if any, is peanuts compared to her because his involved those outside the official scope of the Phil. treasury. while hers is a long litany of many NBN-ZTEs.

2. Arroyo schemed to grab power in 2001. From whom? From the democratically elected Estrada who was elected by the People's Will.

3. Arroyo CHEATED FPJ and the nation in 2004. In contrast, Estrada, have NEVER CHEATED his way to electoral victory starting from his first campaign to win the mayoralty of San Juan decades back.

I don't believe in imposing one's reign on a people. That to me is the WORST SIN that can be committed to Filipinos or any other people.

Besides being MORE corrupt than Marcos, Fidel Ramos, or Estrada, as some say, Gloria Arroyo committed the sin of stealing the Philippine presidency TWICE. Now, if I'll be asked to choose between her and any colonial rule onver the Philippines, I will choose the LESSER EVIL, which is a Filipino--say, the illegitimate, bogus Arroyo-- rather than any white, yellow, brown or black colonial ruler, no matter how heavenly the reign.

{"commentId":2167184,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
  • 3 votes
#5.5 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:38 PM EDT
{"commentId":2170258,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

All elections are rigged and votes are paid for not one of these presidents have not been un involved in election rigging on a small scale or a large scale. Each and every time their is an election we here politicians argue that the other side rigged the vote. Marco's was proved to be the most corrupt president of all times. GMA could only be class as being in second place let get perspective here. Buying votes is the norm.

Erap had great following because he was normally a hero on the silver screen, in real life he was corrupt and there was solid proof of that. It was presented at court and through the fog one could see there was no smoke without fire.

We will always differ on these points but on the point that the Filipino's deserve a much better government that is not corrupt and its interest being the peoples interest, we would agree most firmly.

But at present be careful what you wish for.

{"commentId":2170258,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
  • 1 vote
#5.6 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:06 PM EDT
{"commentId":2172450,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
We might not see her affected because she is really very good at that, just like an actress, pretending to be okey when in fact deep inside her, her conscience is eating her out

There are always the exceptional fellows in our midst. I have to concede that the bogus President Gloria Arroyo is among those rare individuals... who have developed the rare condition of having an INACTIVE CONSCIENCE. I genuinely do not believe that Gloria's conscience is eating her out.

Good for her, God is really patient waiting for her to repent.

Perhaps, God waits for the Filipino people to cleanse its rank and to act united in justice and morality.

{"commentId":2172450,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
  • 2 votes
#5.7 - Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:34 AM EDT
{"commentId":2172915,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
not one of these presidents have not been un involved in election rigging on a small scale or a large scale

Bob, are you saying all Phil. presidents cheated their way to the presidency, or to their earlier elective posts? If so, most Filipinos could call that a nasty statement. To say that all the presidents who occupied Malacanang didn't have the mandate of the people can be taken as an insult to the nation.

It is also sweeping and not based on history. For your info, it was only Marcos (Arroyo never won) who won a second term as President. By simple logic, that means that other than Marcos, all the winning opponents of re-electionists or incumbents could not have possibly cheated because one can't cheat a sitting President.

Erap had great following because he was normally a hero on the silver screen

By this, you admit that Erap have won his elections fair and square. Which is a fact. I know you're aware of this--that Erap's election in 1998 represents the only uncontestedly legitimate assumption of the Philippine presidency in a post-Marcos era.

But at present be careful what you wish for.

The worst is here, Gloria Arroyo's the name, so there's no need fear my wish. The only missing factor is the option of a foreign power. I'll always be pro-Filipino. Though I think Arrobo has made the heinous sins of power grab, cheating and never-ending plunder against the nation, I'd really rather have her than any foreign power. Now, that is only if there's no other choice.

{"commentId":2172915,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
  • 2 votes
#5.8 - Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:14 AM EDT
{"commentId":2175981,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
Bob, are you saying all Phil. presidents cheated their way to the presidency, or to their earlier elective posts? If so, most Filipinos could call that a nasty statement. To say that all the presidents who occupied Malacanang didn't have the mandate of the people can be taken as an insult to the nation

Are those the people that took the small bribe to vote for them, come on face up to it local and republic elections are rigged some where along the line, Ballot boxes are raided ballots are exchange. That's why so many lawyers are involved and elections take forever over the accusations and recounts.

Elections have always been full of scull thuggery the Mayor my partner was working for husband and son was killed in two of these crazy elections. We are talking about crooks on both sides of the table.

By this, you admit that Erap have won his elections fair and square. Which is a fact. I know you're aware of this--that Erap's election in 1998 represents the only uncontestedly legitimate assumption of the Philippine presidency in a post-Marcos era.

No I don't
the way your suggesting, my meaning is the people that voted in a normally crazy vote rigged election (both sides do the rigging, its a battle of who can do it better) were duped they thought he could never be corrupt as they had seen him in the movies. But I am not saying he won his election on the fact that vote rigging went on put on his film star popularity.

There is a joke going around amongst the British ex-pats here:

Its the Philippine should declare war on Great Britain, with in 5 to 10 years the Philippines would be like Hong Kong. lol

Your wish to have the opposition party will only lead to different crooks running the country.

One thing I like GMA for is that she stopped the death penalty

{"commentId":2175981,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
  • 2 votes
#5.9 - Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:17 PM EDT
{"commentId":2177492,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
Are those the people that took the small bribe to vote for them, come on face up to it local and republic elections are rigged some where along the line, Ballot boxes are raided ballots are exchange. That's why so many lawyers are involved and elections take forever over the accusations and recounts.

You're talking local here. I completely agree. Where I am, the mayoralty results have been rigged, as well as a distant governorship (to the best of my knowledge). Such rigging especially applies if the lead is not overwhelming because otherwise, cheating efforts cannot be guaranteed success. Every Filipino is just about aware of that.

But my point is the presidency. Filipinos may allow cheating at the local level but at the national level, it's not that simple. Other than Arroyo's 2004 cheating the only other possible cases are Marcos and Ramos. That's low ratio. And historians aren't even sure with Marcos because he was truly popular. My analysis is that Filipinos' pakikisama trait get them beholden to those they are geographically near to, but that they want their president to be THEIR choice.

No, I don't....

Oh, please Bob. Erap's election is the cleanest in decades. Not even the De-Venecia and other camps cried "cheating." I'm sorry but I think your bias gets in the way of your statements/analysis.

Its the Philippine should declare war on Great Britain, with in 5 to 10 years the Philippines would be like Hong Kong.

True, but I'll still fight for my country one way or the other.

Your wish to have the opposition party will only lead to different crooks running the country.

In the first place, NO ONE can be as crook as Gloria Arroyo. I like her being a woman and appointing female (why her 'classmates,' I have no comment) to important posts. However, she's MEGA CORRUPT and MEGA MANHID to any call for moral governance.

Secondly, I don't buy your sweeping generalization that all opposition members are crooks. All GMA men and women, maybe.

Thirdly, in a hypothetical situation where your argument holds, at least it's the Filipino people's CHOICE. As I said before, her sins are not only corruption but power grab AND cheating. She has made all Filipinos look stupid and immoral, and maybe corrupted many souls in the process.

One thing I like GMA for is that she stopped the death penalty

Because she's subservient to the bishops or rather, bribed her way to the Philippine Cathilic Church's support.

Or maybe, she's just planning for the future in case she gets axed from her position. I tell you, so much awaits her....

{"commentId":2177492,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
  • 2 votes
#5.10 - Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:43 AM EDT
{"commentId":2177502,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
... in real life he was corrupt and there was solid proof of that. It was presented at court and through the fog one could see there was no smoke without fire.

Bob, the only thing proved by the Sandiganbayan decision on Erap is that it is a KANGAROO COURT beholden to Gloria Arroyo on the (fulfilled) promise of promotion to the Supreme Court. Please, within a month, the chief judge got promoted as SC associate justice and within the next few weeks, another got in the SC. Only the ignorant or prejudicial would buy that it was a just decision. This is especially true in the light of the argument for the guilty verdict--ever heard before of a "conspiracy" of one?

{"commentId":2177502,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
  • 2 votes
#5.11 - Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:50 AM EDT
{"commentId":2177869,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
I'm sorry but I think your bias

I hate GMA and her crooks how the hell can I be Bias.

Your the one that's Bias in thinking Erap is practically a saint and I beg to disagree because I do really take a center point view of which most foreigners that live in the Philippines mainly do.

Its my understanding that this happened:

On January 17, 2001, the impeachment trial of President Estrada moved to the investigation of an envelope containing crucial evidence that would allegedly prove acts of political corruption by Estrada. Senators allied with Estrada moved to block the evidence. The conflict between the senators, judges, and the prosecution became deeper, but Senator Francisco Tatad requested to the Impeachment court to make a vote for opening the second envelope. The vote resulted in 10 senators in favor of examining the evidence, and 11 senators in favor of suppressing it.

Had this envelop been open and Estrada had proved it to be rubbish then I would be on your side of the argument.

Also this:

All 11 prosecutors in the Estrada impeachment trial resigned, following an 11-10 vote by the Senate the previous day to block a key piece of evidence. Sen. Tessie Aquino-Oreta, one of the three female senators who voted for "NO" (no for opening of the envelope), was seen on nationwide television and most people had the impression that she was dancing joyfully as the opposition walked out. This further fueled the growing anti-ERAP sentiments of the crowd gathered at EDSA Shrine, and she became the most vilified and accursed of the 11 senators. She was labeled a "prostitute" and a "concubine" of ERAP for her dancing act. Sen. Defensor-Santiago was also ridiculed, as the crowd tagged her as a "lunatic" (it came from her reputation of being overly intelligent).

Philippines politics is very dirty and that's a fact. Not opening the letter show Erap is part of this corruption thing he is no angel. If he did not get caught plundering GMA would of never been on the seat of power.

{"commentId":2177869,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
  • 2 votes
#5.12 - Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:17 AM EDT
{"commentId":2186156,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}

Bob, why did I call you bias? The fact that you claim or insinuate that Erap cheated his way into his posts, presidency included, is to me the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Period.

Your the one that's Bias in thinking Erap is practically a saint and I beg to disagree because I do really take a center point view of which most foreigners that live in the Philippines mainly do.

Please, you're not only putting words into my mouth, you're deleting words as well to suit your baseless arguments.

Nobody claims Erap is a saint. Hey, I never ever voted for the guy, and not even those whom he endorses personally. I vote according to my beliefs and my assessment of issues, all things objectively considered.

Estrada endorsed Villar and others in the last elections but I was not about to be talked out of my belief that Villar was critically responsible for the mess the country is in now (his undemocratic role in EDSA 2). Let me see, I voted for 3 administration guys--Angara, Sotto and Oreta-Aquino.

She was labeled a "prostitute" and a "concubine" of ERAP for her dancing act. Sen. Defensor-Santiago was also ridiculed, as the crowd tagged her as a "lunatic" (it came from her reputation of being overly intelligent).

Ellen Tordesillas devoted a column on this issue and it's laughable what she wrote--something like the leaders of the smear campaign on Oreta were the ones who were "p_ta" because they've been seen cavorting with different men not their husbands while Oreta was proper and faithful to her husband. Well, I believe women have as much right to cavort if men do the same but my point here is that it's all dirty propaganda to serve an undemocratic end.

Philippines politics is very dirty and that's a fact. Not opening the letter show Erap is part of this corruption thing he is no angel. If he did not get caught plundering GMA would of never been on the seat of power.

Hmm.

I see you haven't been updated. Or choose, as usual, to focus on Erap's fault and ignore the much greater sins of Arroyo.

When the envelope was opened after Edsa 2, even Sen. Pimentel (remember his anti-Erap stance then) even expressed frustration at its contents. NOthing incriminating for Erap.

Now, I won't go into that impeachment details--abandoned by the prosecutors because they sensed they WILL BE OUTVOTED in a democratic impeachment process. The thing is you harp on it but ignores the non-opening of the questioned COCs during the 2004 Congressional canvassing and the numerous actions of the Most Corrupt PHilippine President to thwart witnesses to her corrupt ways.

Early on in her illegitimate presidency, I remember that she deported a Filipino businessman with foreign passport who began testifying against her corrupt involvement in a deal. This was followed by numerous other cases including the kidnapping attempt on Lozada.

Whoever ignores these GMA corruption stories are either lying minions of this bogus government, or in a state of well-intentioned DENIAL. Now, if this is coupled with the consistent emphasis on the lesser crimes of Erap, what could that be? LOL.

{"commentId":2186156,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
  • 1 vote
#5.13 - Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:21 PM EDT
{"commentId":2192915,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

see you haven't been updated. Or choose, as usual, to focus on Erap's fault and ignore the much greater sins of Arroyo.

When the envelope was opened after Edsa 2, even Sen. Pimentel (remember his anti-Erap stance then) even expressed frustration at its contents. NOthing incriminating for Erap

Please use you brain! If there was no evidence with in the letter and erap knew he was not guilty of any corruption whatso ever why didn't want to open the letter. If he had he would of still remained in power. I think that erap thought there was solid evidence within that letter if there was not he would of smiled and opened it. But by not openning it he showed that he was as guilty as hell. That letter is the indicator to the fact he was involed in corruption and I am pretty sure that GMA husband was also involved.

Yes GMA is corrupt so what! The government has always been one of the corruptess governments in the world. Marco's however was the most currupt president and dictator the Philippines has ever seen. However you claim the GMA is corrupt have you seen her bank statements? lol Yes she did fix or tried to fix the last election but so did the oposition but because of her power over comelet she won.

Her husband has shown he could be corrupt, have you seen his bank statements? As like you I would like to see GMA impeached but not because I surmise she is corrupt but because she fixed the last election. I would then want an investigation on her and her husbands bank accounts and business transactions. Its only then if proof is provided of corruption she can be declared corrupt and the size of the money she has stole or made from this corruption is the concluding factor on making possible statements she is the most corrupt president.

Fiddling votes is called cheating lets get it right. Yes there is proof she cheated and lied. No solid proof so far she is corrupt. Hopefully your next article will give solid proof. and I am interested in the bank statements and those shady deals that proves corruption.

I am not Bias to anything other than the truth, of which I try to prope from the propaganda and indoctrination. Thats what good citizen Journalism is about.

{"commentId":2192915,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
  • 1 vote
#5.14 - Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:58 PM EDT
{"commentId":2195087,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
Please use you brain! If there was no evidence with in the letter and erap knew he was not guilty of any corruption whatso ever why didn't want to open the letter

Well then, Bob, apply your "brain" as well to the multiple efforts of your adopted Philippine president in covering up a long litany of corruption exposes. Cases include the Mahusay-helicopter service case of Jose Pidal aka First Gentlepig and a host of others, the most recent of whom is Lozada. Ergo, we conclude that she is guilty MANY times over.

Yes GMA is corrupt so what!

Are you serious? At least you're being honest now.

Again, following your line of reasoning, we'll have to say as well. "Yes, Erap is corrupt. So what?" I'll have to qualify this, though, by saying that Erap is MUCH LESS corrupt as he respected public funds and instead touched those on the sides.

I would then want an investigation on her and her husbands bank accounts and business transactions

Oh please, you know how Gloria Arrobo's administration would allow no such thing. Farcical "investigations, " yes.

Marco's however was the most currupt president and dictator the Philippines has ever seen.

Says who? That was everyone's impression back then. In his time, Marcos was the most corrupt. Today, that no longer holds water. That's what you want to think or make people believe, despite post-Marcos developments.

Come Gloria Arroyo. My claim that she is the Most Corrupt President in Philippine History is shared by millions of Filipinos overall based on a national research study and supported by different international international survey or research entities.

if proof is provided of corruption she can be declared corrupt and the size of the money she has stole or made from this corruption is the concluding factor on making possible statements she is the most corrupt president

Here's Justice Panganiban's Inquirer that sums up my point:

The WB report validates earlier studies showing that corruption in our country has worsened. The Hong Kong-based Political and Economic Risk Consultancy (PERC) gave the Philippines a grade of 9.4 (with 10 as the worst possible grade) in 2007, down sharply from 7.8 in 2006.

Similarly, the German-based Transparency International (TI), represented here by retired Judge Dolores Espanol, downgraded the Philippines from No. 121 most corrupt country in 2006 to 131 (among 180 countries) in 2007. Otherwise stated, TI rated the Philippines as the 8th most corrupt country in the world, tied with Benin, Gambia, Guayana, Honduras, Nepal, Russia, Rwanda and Swaziland. Haiti was the No. 1 most corrupt.

The moral degradation happened under your adopted President's term, Bob. The corruption level in this country was much better before Arrobo, dictator Marcos' time, included.The whole Philippines and the world know Gloria Arroyo is historically the Most Corrupt "leader" of this poor country.

I'm pretty sure you have come to love the Filipinos. However, it's clear that with your continued assertion that Arrobo is not corrupt or something, you are either in denial, misguided, or you are a propaganda pawn here.

{"commentId":2195087,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
  • 1 vote
#5.15 - Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:19 AM EDT
{"commentId":2201935,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

I got news for you I have not adopt GMA and never said I had, however I am not looking a claims but want to see facts.

You behaving like a political activist your answers show that you are the political pawn, something that I am not I am certainly not brainwashed by any forms of brainwashing I should know that as I write about its dangers.

I completely hate Filipino politics and all these political clans that hold this country to ransom, they are all corrupt, corruption is deeply embedded here. I have been asked to bribe and that is a thing I really do not like to do.

Erap is no better than the rest of them they are all crooks, so do not try to tie me down under a pigeon hole that suites your propaganda task.

I am central point and what ever your twist and turns in answer to my comments or false acquisition's readers here can see my center point reactions and statements. Black is not white.

If you want to change your president (NOT MINE) at least approach the reason fairly, All I am seeing here is attacks with at this present moment with out clear solid evidence only that she fiddled the last election which is called CHEATING and not CORRUPTION.

Then you try to pour water over the fact that most politicians try to cheat here in the Philippines.

If your going to mention the bad things that GMA lets have a balance of the good things she has done for the country.

Why is it I see no fair play here on your column? No fair and complete analysis just a one sided bias point of view. That's not what good journalism's about its about having a center point opinion. Your just issuing propaganda as a political activist.

I have said all I need to say on this subject and I will leave it to your readers to judge what I have said through out this debate.

I really am sick of having words placed in my mouth about opinions I simply do not have and political leanings that I simply do not have and to favouritism I really do not have.

Its like talking to a brick wall that states "I LOVE ERAP" and "GMA IS THE MOST CORRUPTED PRESIDENT (we have no solid evidence we will just make it up and people will believe it, because we said it so), lol

I am out of this non debate please let me know when you have solid proof on the lines of the Marco's fiasco. Of course he still has a following of people that love him and state he was innocent. lol

The Philippines is a crazy place some times I think I am living amongst a lunatic asylum where logic thinking is thrown away. Its very amusing but some what sad.

So I am stepping out before the same insanity infects my thoughts being that of the center line. Thanks for the debate but not for the un-logic reasoning or the insults to my neutrality.

{"commentId":2201935,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
  • 1 vote
#5.16 - Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:26 PM EDT
{"commentId":2261509,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
I got news for you I have not adopt GMA and never said I had

Well then, Bob, it struck me that you have adopted the Philippines because you have been living here and you say that you love it here. Combine this with the fact that you have made many statements in support of Arrobo, I then induced that she is your "adopted President." If that were not not the case, so be it.

Erap is no better than the rest of them they are all crooks, so do not try to tie me down under a pigeon hole that suites your propaganda task.

...if you feel thats she is the most corrupt Filipino President it would be slander to state such with out solid proof.

You're the one lying to the millions of Filipinos who have adjudged Gloria Arroyo as the Most Corrupt President in Philippine History, survey says Moreover, inspite of the massive and well-oiled propaganda machinery of Arrobo, Erap has been the 2nd LEAST CORRUPT President in Philippine History, next to ex-Pres. Cory Aquino! The Guinness documentation would come later, as was the case with Marcos.

By completely ignoring the opinion of majority of Filipinos you live among with, you're the one acting as a propaganda pawn, or a propagandist of your prejudiced or misinformed opinion (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here). You might genuinely be unaware but your truth is a BIG LIE to the Filipinos as a whole.

Bob, there's the link to the Pulse Asia survey results so you'll know that I don't slander: I'm only echoing what most Filipinos nationwide also think. Notice that I only started using the "Most Corrupt" tag after news about the survey came out. Also, FYI, those results were previously under embargo that's why I couldn't provide the links although some media practitioners got hold of copies months earlier. ...she fiddled the last election which is called CHEATING and not CORRUPTION.

Are you serious? You think Gloria did the 2004 cheating by herself? Don't you understand that in a "democratic" system, you have to CORRUPT the souls of people in order for them to accomplish illegal acts? Apart for the COMELEC and the military, the cover-up involved lawmakers, as heard from the Garci tapes. Can't you possibly see the connection between, say the junkets and the Malacanang bribery scandal, and the continued support of certain solons amidst numerous exposes of electoral fraud and corruption? You behaving like a political activist

My column focuses on political and historical analyses. I have backgrounds in those fields (political science and history). Those are where my interests lie and let me say, where I'm somewhat good at. Consequently, my column is mostly devoted to political and historical issues. If your going to mention the bad things that GMA lets have a balance of the good things she has done for the country.

Unfortunately, I'm hard put thinking of one because she has done practically nothing good for the country. Almost all her fruits are rotten because the seed of her presidency is depraved. Then you try to pour water over the fact that most politicians try to cheat here in the Philippines.

Ah ah, did you miss my point? I refer only to the presidential elections, but then again, I cited how Marcos and Ramos. possibly cheated. I suggest you kindly review #5.10

I'm amazed at how you easily conclude that most Filipino politicians cheat and and engage in corruption but amidst the long litany of corruption exposes against Arroyo, AND you dare ask for "solid evidence."

With Erap, whose prosecutors ABANDONED the impeachment proceedings, and who would be found tried by a Kangaroo Court (I'm sure that in Britain, judges don't get promoted w/in a few weeks following a political case, and that the PM doesn't need to legitimize himself by imprisoning his predecessor), you are so quick to judge him "very corrupt." That is double-standard. Applied to trials and judicial matters, that is called "injustice." GMA has not been thoroughly investigated every thing mentioned here is ear say and rants from her opposition

Please, that deported businessman I earlier talked about, Mahusay and Lozada are hardly "opposition." do not see the torment of the opposition

If you're referring to the political opposition, they can very well fend for themselves. A simple crossover move and they can enrich themselves, but choose not to. It's the small people who are most tormented by hardships under the bogus president and that reality seems to elude you. No you are not read everything that I stated./ I really did not want to say anything more here because my words and meaning have been twisted.

It has not been twisted. Essentially your point was that GMA and the congressmen are the 'good guys,' or at least aim to improve the nation's lot. The gross details of the US junked overwhelmingly belies it. In the past the central Philippines had been neglected now not so much and thats why GMA is liked in Cebu and Negro's the people have seen improvement.

She has been negative in LUzon and Mindanao. If the island has been neglected, ain't it worst for Mindanao? Her illegitimate presidency desperately needed a "bailiwick" so cultivating Visayas as her "turf" proved convenient.

I'm sure that you do not really condone corruption because after all, you admire Sen. Trillanes. However, your prejudice against Estrada and the Visayan "affinity" for Arrobo gets in the way of any objective analysis.

This is my last point, something I had previously wanted to address long before this article: that Arroyo has supposedly addressed the problem of employment is baloney.

Arroyo gave short-term work, that magically began in time for the 2004 elections. Among those "jobs" were those special street cleaners in the EDSA that I don't see anymore see post-election time. You know how politically sickening those "jobs" were? While walking in EDSA, I would see those workers doing silly (unimportant) beautification while they donned GMA T-SHIRTS with the big name and picture of Arrobo splashed on it and the message that the project is a gift or something of Arroyo.

That's not only electioneering using public funds. That's wicked opportunism of the needy.

{"commentId":2261509,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
  • 1 vote
#5.17 - Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:06 PM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":2123157,"authorDomain":"ntq"}
Her camp has used and continued to use God and the church as arguments for her power grab and continued hold on power.

She's asking for it then.

Perhaps, when I have the time, I will provide you with the links to Arroyo's sickening acts of religious hypocrisy and atrocious claims of divine will re her presidency.

I look foward to that.

I don't actually mean castration. I just said something near the punishments discussed in your seed, which include the capital punishment, right?

Right. I was just kidding.

Filipinos hungrier, more activitists dead, made corruption worse by her most corrupt ways (a national survey by a reputable firm adjudged her the "Most Corrupt President in Philippine History"!)

Strange. That's what people used to say about Marcus. Has there been any instance of crushing street protests?

One other thing. Does the "MORO FRONT" still exist? i mean, is it still active? If so, what exactly are its ideals (objectives) and to which part of the society do its supporters (followers) belong?

{"commentId":2123157,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"ntq"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#6 - Sat Jul 5, 2008 1:18 PM EDT
{"commentId":2167237,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}

Yes, there's still the Moro Front although the original group (MNLF) has sort of been replaced by the MILF. It's rather complicated. Perhaps, this Wikipedia link on the MNLF and the FAS article on the MILF should help, ntq.

{"commentId":2167237,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
  • 3 votes
#6.1 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:46 PM EDT
{"commentId":2170987,"authorDomain":"ntq"}

Ta :-)

{"commentId":2170987,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"ntq"}
    #6.2 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:35 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":2138737,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

    Sorry I took a long time to look at this article. Its very factual but all these dam politicians are corrupt on both sides of the fence. If GMA was impeached another corrupt leader would step on to the throne.

    These political clans are crooks they are in politics for its rich pickings and sod the poor until its election time where many are bribed to vote for the highest bung giver. The only thing that would sort this country out is a revolution. Place all the politicians including the local ones in Jail or against the wall and shoot them (a bit blood thirsty I know).

    There is no other way to beat this corrupt governing system as they the crooks have insured that non corrupt people can serve the people. Its a dead loss where as even those that write about the corruption in local newspapers are often killed to silence them.

    However I love this dam place and that's one of the reasons I live here.

    {"commentId":2138737,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#7 - Tue Jul 8, 2008 12:20 AM EDT
    {"commentId":2146761,"authorDomain":"ntq"}
    The only thing that would sort this country out is a revolution. Place all the politicians including the local ones in Jail or against the wall and shoot them

    By Iranian experience, I would say that only spreads the virus. :-)

    {"commentId":2146761,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"ntq"}
    • 1 vote
    #7.1 - Tue Jul 8, 2008 10:49 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2157277,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    By Iranian experience, I would say that only spreads the virus

    whats that to do with the price of eggs, different country and different religion.

    A complete blood bath of all the corrupt political clans would be the only answer but of course being a compassionate man I would be completely against treating the trash in such manner. But it still the only answer I can think of that world work.

    But this is the Philippines what I say will never happen these people will struggle and poverty will remain and increase. The rich bastards here really do not care and do not want the corruption to stay, I minority of rich people are opposed to this.

    This is not Iran and the cultures are very different and I know them well as I have lived here for eight years and studied the politics here very well.

    {"commentId":2157277,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 1 vote
    #7.2 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:02 AM EDT
    {"commentId":2157476,"authorDomain":"ntq"}
    The rich bastards here really do not care and do not want the corruption to stay, I minority of rich people are opposed to this.

    The rich are the root of corruption. Otherwise they wouldn't have been rich. And as with you, you're not rich. You're new-rich. There's a lot of difference between the two; the first, being corrupted and the latter, super-corrupted. Good day, old man.

    {"commentId":2157476,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"ntq"}
    • 2 votes
    #7.3 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:03 AM EDT
    {"commentId":2158009,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

    I am not rich I live on a British two military pension I could make more money but I am not money driven. With my spare cash I help where I can mainly sending to school or helping youngsters to get a better education here in the Philippines. I wished I could do more.

    {"commentId":2158009,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 2 votes
    #7.4 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:37 AM EDT
    {"commentId":2159925,"authorDomain":"ntq"}
    I am not rich I live on a British two military pension I could make more money but I am not money driven. With my spare cash I help where I can mainly sending to school or helping youngsters to get a better education here in the Philippines. I wished I could do more.

    Smart. In that case, you're Richard. Far better than being rich.

    {"commentId":2159925,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"ntq"}
    • 1 vote
    #7.5 - Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:35 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2164972,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

    cheeky and I am not a complete dick,lol

    {"commentId":2164972,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 2 votes
    #7.6 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:51 AM EDT
    {"commentId":2171198,"authorDomain":"ntq"}
    cheeky and I am not a complete dick,lol

    Certainly not, sir. Now, back to your comment "what's that to do with the price of eggs", all I could say is that the term "Filipinos" and "Iranians" is a mere imaginative boundry when it comes to comparing the basic needs of the 2 nations as human beings (i.e. regardless of their national/cultural identity). I admire the fact that "revolution" is the necessity of the state of human perfection. It's the way people constantly get the concept (revolution) wrong with "rebellion". They're two completely different events. Your notion of putting them against the wall and wiping them out is a "rebellious" process (an open. organized, and formidable arms resistance to constituted authority) as long as it's not supplemented with total revolt in the state of the minds and souls of the revolutionaries and their followers (the nation). It's crucial that we stop getting the two wrong. ("Rebellion" vs. "Revolution"). "Revolution" with principally sad and regretful consequences is typically the result of this misconception. It's a false claim. No matter if it ends in the final overthrow of the government or not. That's not revolution. That's just a miserable experience of spreading the virus (including the "corruption" genome). It's nothing I would recommend to any nation. :-)

    {"commentId":2171198,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"ntq"}
    • 2 votes
    #7.7 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:30 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2176777,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

    ops mistaken in my analysis these things happen sorry. I agree

    {"commentId":2176777,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 2 votes
    #7.8 - Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:54 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2179572,"authorDomain":"ntq"}
    I am not rich I live on a British two military pension I could make more money but I am not money driven. With my spare cash I help where I can mainly sending to school or helping youngsters to get a better education here in the Philippines. I wished I could do more.

    Thank you for your courageous and constructive attitude,sir. As a second best marksmen and a dedicated cadet serving tours of duty and CCF expeditions and trainings with the Royal Army (1970-8), I must admit that some of my most immaculate lifetime friends are, in fact, amongst the brave and prudent members of British Military; namely, Captain Ollie Ormiston of the 1st Battn Royal anglain Regt. & Captain James Shaw of the Grenadier Guards. They are my old school (Bedford School) colleagues and are currently serving their tour of duty in Afghanistan. Ollie is commanding Heavy Weapons platoon while James is Company second in Command, helping to train Afghan National Army. My best wishes go to you 3 gentlemen and your esteemed families.

    {"commentId":2179572,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"ntq"}
    • 1 vote
    #7.9 - Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:35 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2181412,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

    Thank you ntq, seemingly that both Captain Ollie Ormiston and Captain James Shaw and their families require more attention than myself I am just an old gentleman in a safe haven. Where as both of these officers are on active duty at the risking their life's in a senseless urban war. I truly hope that they are safe and that they get home safely after their tour of duty.

    It is a duty that some times one disagrees with the reasons for but professional soldiering is a job and a sworn dedication to defends ones country and to serve the Queen. In fact its controlling and respecting fear that keeps soldiers alive in a battle zone, when under fire one has no time for fear only for plans and collective action to neutralise the enemy. Ridged training and good discipline helps keep a soldiers alive.

    I would never look at myself as a brave man. I am however a survour and someone thankful that others watched my back that made that feeling of fear subside a great deal.

    Since I have left the British Army my hatred of guns in civilian hands and the arms traders has increased. I do not trust politicians and the politics that's bred by corporations such as the oil conglomerates. In my later years I have become a peace activist, of whom see's a need for armies in a homeland defence mode but not going to war for corperate interest and only for a real need to obtain world peace.

    My best wishes go to their wives and families that are waiting back at their home base listening to news daily praying that their love ones come home safely in one piece.

    My heart warm thanks and wishes for a happy future to you and your family and peace be with you.

    {"commentId":2181412,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 2 votes
    #7.10 - Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:07 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2183240,"authorDomain":"ntq"}

    We'll drink to that, Babel. Sparing energy and effort for the course of peace is, by far, the most important and closest task to the hearts of high-minded (far-sighted) individuals. God bless you.

    {"commentId":2183240,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"ntq"}
    • 1 vote
    #7.11 - Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:42 AM EDT
    {"commentId":2183450,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

    same to you and may peace one day exist on this small pebble we are lucky to live on and dismayed at those that want to spoil it because of their greed and hard hearts.

    {"commentId":2183450,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 2 votes
    #7.12 - Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:02 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":2167270,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}

    Thank you all for your visit here.

    To rqcemanes, ntq and Babel fish, it's nice to know that despite the obvious differences, you all seem concerned for the Philippines that you either grew up in or had come to like or love.

    {"commentId":2167270,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    • 4 votes
    Reply#8 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:51 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2170330,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

    That's a very nice polite way in saying don't argue amongst yourselves, lol

    Its always a pleasure Jesusa and I am sure rqcemanenes loves the Philippines as much or even more than I do. One thing for sure the Filipino's deserve better than they have got. My only problem living here is the noise, never understanding why the base speakers are turn to full power, it ruins the sound of the music, lol.

    Waiting for the inside story about GMA, please contact me soon as its published.

    {"commentId":2170330,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 3 votes
    #8.1 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:21 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2171259,"authorDomain":"ntq"}
    To rqcemanes, ntq and Babel fish, it's nice to know that despite the obvious differences, you all seem concerned for the Philippines that you either grew up in or had come to like or love.

    Not at all, Jesusa. after all, considering we're all human beings belonging to the same mother-planet, it'll only take an ass to seek fortune so long as there are starving bellies around. or, in other words, so long as there is corruption. That's a concern far beyond the boundaries of artificial classifications such as nattionalism, racism and so on. It's the matter of how big we see our little world. Thanks for sharing. :-)

    {"commentId":2171259,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"ntq"}
    • 2 votes
    #8.2 - Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:47 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2172973,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    Waiting for the inside story about GMA, please contact me soon as its published.

    I'm not really willing to give out names and all, Bob. I might be idealistic, but I'm no stupid not to be careful. I also won't compromise my source. Nonetheless, it should be interesting.

    {"commentId":2172973,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    • 3 votes
    #8.3 - Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:25 AM EDT
    {"commentId":2172980,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    That's a concern far beyond the boundaries of artificial classifications such as nattionalism, racism and so on. It's the matter of how big we see our little world.

    I really see you as a good soul of this earth, ntq.

    {"commentId":2172980,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    • 3 votes
    #8.4 - Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:26 AM EDT
    {"commentId":2176567,"authorDomain":"ntq"}
    really see you as a good soul of this earth, ntq.

    And I make sure I never let you down, my generous friend. :-)

    {"commentId":2176567,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"ntq"}
    • 2 votes
    #8.5 - Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:14 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2176760,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    I'm not really willing to give out names and all, Bob. I might be idealistic, but I'm no stupid not to be careful. I also won't compromise my source. Nonetheless, it should be interesting

    I try to be careful myself on these issues as and don't blame you one bit. In fact you made me think I hope my own comments are being looked at by any political entity here in the Philippine's. I will have to bribe my way out or at least get a body guard, lol

    To be serious it can be dangerous for you and others. we really do not know how read our articles are and that factor of being placed on search engines is a worrying thought.

    {"commentId":2176760,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 2 votes
    #8.6 - Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:51 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2177464,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    I try to be careful myself on these issues as and don't blame you one bit. In fact you made me think I hope my own comments are being looked at by any political entity here in the Philippine's. I will have to bribe my way out or at least get a body guard, lol

    You don't need a bodyguard, Bob--you're generally on Arroyo's side. They'd probably even reward you for persistent attacks on Erap and equally persistent sober-appearing defense of the someone I call the Most Corrupt President in Philippine History.

    {"commentId":2177464,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    • 2 votes
    #8.7 - Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:23 AM EDT
    {"commentId":2181521,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

    I am not on any-ones side other than the Philippine people. I have no link to any political party view or wish to as they all stink.

    I see indoctrination caused by propaganda, on this issue I certainly take a fair center point view untainted by indoctrination of any sort. GMA family is corrupt, I don't doubt her election rigging its common practise here. I am not defending her but trying to show the reality that the person you are giving praise to erap is corrupt also. The problem is not the size of the corruption but that it exists everywhere here in the Philippines.

    The very people that go into politics are not interested in running the country but in the easy pickings by doing so. There are very few people that wish to run this country that are not corrupt this concerns every one of the political parties.

    You can throw all the corruption that GMA is involved in and I will agree she is corrupt but I throw eraps corruption at you and you seemingly think that that's not a big issue. It is and I am very sad for the people of this country that I have came to love.

    Corruption is corruption its level is not important the country is in the hands of crooks and they are always fighting for leadership.

    No I don't need a body guard but a magic wand to wave to create a bit of common sense and some decent logical thinking of those that share the Filipino DNA. Sometimes I want to bash my head against the wall and shout L.O.G.I.C please someone bless these Filipino's with logic thinking skills.

    {"commentId":2181521,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 2 votes
    #8.8 - Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:30 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2181671,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

    The case that Erap won his election on a landslide must mention also that GMA vice president bid also won on a landslide. Both can from different political parties but voted at that time by a landslide vote.

    She unfortunately had the voted right to take the throne if erap was impeached or died. Erap did not open that damn envelope that either being the stupidest decisions of his life or that he knew it would be hard to defend the contents of that letter, that being every indication he was corrupt. Then rightfully the people wanted have him overthrown. I fully expect that GMA's husband had great links in this ring of corruption and wanted a bigger chunk and have his wife take the top dogs chair. Its my consider opinion that both Erap and GMA fooled the people of whom elected them both on a landslide vote. But what president does not do this? Its a Global problem.

    GMA had every right to take the chair especially when there was fear of a complete overthrow of government by the people in the street. Yes the damn woman's corrupt and like erap was their in power for the rich pickings, you then lost one devil and a fresh devil took its place.

    But GMA will never be as corrupt or as clever as Marco's he over stayed his presidency and his corrupt cronies still try to defend him even though he is dead. The people think he was so bad they don't want him buried, so he remains in cold storage. That's what happens if your really bad, lol

    Politics is so crazy here and there is only two people that Filipino's can really trust, one being an ex-officer and a Jailed and active Senator the other a priest.

    My sorry goes to the Filippino people you deserve much better than this, and if you believe in God seeminhly he/she/it has forgotten you and put you in the hands of devils.

    {"commentId":2181671,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 2 votes
    #8.9 - Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:00 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2181767,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

    sorry: My sorrow goes to the Fillippino people.

    Note: I am now beginning to think that Erap was the fall guy in this ring of corruption and that GMA made sure he would lead a normal life and she stop the death penalty because she knew he would be found guilty.

    The presidential pardon indicates that this was part of an agreement made to Erap by GMA at the time he was impeached. Honor amongst thief's. Ironically I could be very correct, logical it looks to be that way.

    Oh and that would mean yes it was a kangaroo court that had the aim of drawing out the case and being foggy in all areas other than the one Erap was convicted on. He was not throw into jail but treated well throughout and wow what an out come a pardon, this was almost laughable.

    {"commentId":2181767,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 2 votes
    #8.10 - Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:18 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2183073,"authorDomain":"rqcemanes"}
    rqcemanesDeleted
    {"commentId":2183459,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

    rqcemanes that view I share and thanks for making interest argument its been fun

    {"commentId":2183459,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 2 votes
    #8.12 - Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:05 AM EDT
    {"commentId":2186384,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}

    Death penalty removed for Erap? I don't understand why you continue to ignore important parts of the continuing Edsa 2 history. Have you forgotten that Erap REFUSED to be exiled despite persistent offers from Malacanang, believing that he's not guilty and those damn charges can't be proved? Erap was ready to face hell, and you're painting a picture of the death penalty being removed for Erap's sake. No, Gloria removed it for her own future sake.

    Why was Erap treated well? Why was he in jail in the first place? He was been undemocratically removed despite having the mandate of the masa AND he is not guilty of those plunder charges (I know he's also corrupt but on a much smaller scale. How about her? Why is she in power, her power grab blessed by the unjust Supreme Court and the sinful Cardinal Sin and not sent to the gallows for horrible crimes of power grab, cheating and multiple acts of plunder?

    I followed that impeachment trial in the Senate and it was stupendous hearing Chavit and his women testify about that handcarrying the supposed jueteng collection, when simple mathematics showed that it too heavy to be carried.

    GMA had every right to take the chair especially when there was fear of a complete overthrow of government by the people in the street. Yes the damn woman's corrupt and like erap was their in power for the rich pickings, you then lost one devil and a fresh devil took its place.

    Yeah, she has every damn right...after she and her husband cooked up that Edsa 2 storm by investing on millions of .... propaganda material to be distributed to the people AND engaging in centralized texting to call people to Edsa. 'That's Logic to you?

    And oh, I remember Davide on interview said she would be sworn in as "Acting President" but got sworn in as "President." Well, so much for the sedition and power grab in small, packages.

    {"commentId":2186384,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    • 2 votes
    #8.13 - Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:36 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2193131,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    Why was Erap treated well? Why was he in jail in the first place? He was been undemocratically removed despite having the mandate of the masa AND he is not guilty of those plunder charges (I know he's also corrupt but on a much smaller scale. How about her? Why is she in power, her power grab blessed by the unjust Supreme Court and the sinful Cardinal Sin and not sent to the gallows for horrible crimes of power grab, cheating and multiple acts of plunder?

    why have you got her bank statements to prove that remark? I will agree on the cheating as there is proof.

    You can not make fair accusation on anyone with out solid proof, if you feel thats she is the most corrupt Filipino President it would be slander to state such with out solid proof.

    Come on please provide the proof as at present all I see is slander have you got details of her and her husbands bank accounts and business details?

    If you had and they where solid proof I would line up behind you to stick the knife into GMA heart.

    I can firmly state

    1. That Erap was corrupt

    2. GMA is a cheat

    But I can only state that a feel or think GMA maybe corrupt. . Citizen Journalist have to be careful when it comes to legal issues of publication.

    Please take care activism as such is frowned on by GMA's administration. lol

    {"commentId":2193131,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 1 vote
    #8.14 - Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:26 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2209287,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    Jesusa BernardoDeleted
    Reply
    {"commentId":2186572,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    My sorrow goes to the Fillippino people.

    Yes. Same here. Just this morning, I watched a trailer of an ABS-CBN documentary that posed the question whether the PHilippines is the next Africa. Shown were videos of grossly malnourished young children not far from the images of terribly malnourished African kids I first saw during Marcos time when I was a kid.

    I lived through that time and I remember the issue then was poverty, not HUNGER as obtaining now. Even during Erap's year, short it may be, the issue was poverty and not whether could obtain food or not in a day. What happened? What evil happened? Aside from the plunder of the country's treasury by Gloria Arroyo-cum-ARROBO, I suspect that the abandonment of a national population control program, as a way of Gloria's keeping with the wishes of the Catholic Church has much to do with the terrible situation. The kids shown were about toddler-year or so age.

    The images of the hungry Filipino kids were beginning to break my heart, so I had to focus my mind on other matters, for the meantime....

    {"commentId":2186572,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#9 - Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:50 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2193286,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    I lived through that time and I remember the issue then was poverty, not HUNGER as obtaining now. Even during Erap's year

    Bul@!$%#! thats propaganda and you know it. Hunger on the streets and in the Provence was rampant then as it is today, no one solved it. People out of work, to many children born due to the lack of birth control. GMA has improved that side though half heatedly. the Catholic Church are the biggest offenders to aid poverty for not allowing birth control.

    In fact there has been aid to the people such as NFA rice sponsored by you know who and schemes to advise and aid the lack of nourishment to school children and a lot of good things have been implemented by GMA. In the past the central Philippines had been neglected now not so much and thats why GMA is liked in Cebu and Negro's the people have seen improvement.

    Though she may be corrupt she has achieved a lot whilst the senators have been scratching their rear ends.

    That's the truth and not propaganda. Please show solid proof that GMA is corrupt and stop using propaganda that insults my intelligence. When your talking about poverty here remember I live amoungst it and I have seen the hungry also help some of them.

    {"commentId":2193286,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 1 vote
    #9.1 - Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:46 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2193317,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

    If you are on about the rise in food prices and its effect on poverty that price rise is due to oil prices of which are the after effects of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. Also blame america and its weak dollar. Yes this will cause hunger. Please go lighter on the propaganda

    {"commentId":2193317,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 1 vote
    #9.2 - Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:51 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2195080,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}

    But I can only state that a feel or think GMA maybe corrupt. . Citizen Journalist have to be careful when it comes to legal issues of publication.

    Please take care activism as such is frowned on by GMA's administration. lol

    Thanks for the word of advise and show of concern, Bob.

    If you are on about the rise in food prices and its effect on poverty that price rise is due to oil prices of which are the after effects of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. Also blame america and its weak dollar.

    I'm not on to that. I don't write on what I don't understand so much or have not properly researched.

    Please go lighter on the propaganda

    This I can tell, I don't simply write from top of my head or baseless opinions. I make objective study, honest analysis and thorough research included, of everything I write about. That's not propaganda but responsible truth within the proper social context.

    {"commentId":2195080,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    • 1 vote
    #9.3 - Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:13 AM EDT
    {"commentId":2196830,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    Bul@!$%#! thats propaganda and you know it. Hunger on the streets and in the Provence was rampant then as it is today, no one solved it.

    There is a wide range of meaning for the term "propaganda" but to me, that involves the dissemination of lies, misleading information or baseless accusations.

    Bob, the statement that hunger and poverty are much worst under Gloria Arroyo is a painful fact borne out not only by personal observation but also by various non-partisan research studies. Based on SWS's historical survey studies, total hunger under Arrobo has been consistently WORSE than during Erap's time. Somewhat similar studies by Pulse Asia say the same.

    I don't do stupid propaganda, Bob. Before I make judgments or assessment, I ARM myself with facts and data. By continuing to buy Arroyo's propaganda while ignoring data presented by indicators of the obtaining social situations, you're the one serving as a propagandist here, consciously or otherwise.

    You really think I'm a propagandist? How could you miss my article discussing hunger and poverty, corruption, quality of life, dissatisfaction with the President and human rights violations , which are BASED on the studies of Transparency INternational, the Hong Kong-based Political and Economic Risk Consultancy, Social Weather Station, Pulse Asia? For your convenience, here's the link to my article The Sorry State of the Philippines under the EDSA 2 President

    There's this recent SWS analysis (based on their periodic survey studies) on how the Filipinos have historically perceived the fight on graft and corruption under the four most recent presidents. Results? I don't know if you'll really be surprised but the people's perception of Arroyo's efforts has been consistently NEGATIVE from day one. In contrast, Aquino, Ramos and Estrada had their share of positive perceptions each. And of course, there are several other direct studies on presidential corruption, including of course Pulse Asia's survey showing Arroyo to be the Most Corrupt President in Philippine History.

    Even those congressmen on Arroyo's recent junket list knows she's corrupt--they're just not telling the people because they want to partake of its dirty fruits. LOL.

    People out of work... GMA has improved that side

    I'm totally bewildered. How untypically Philippines is the situation in your side of the Visayas?

    When your talking about poverty here remember I live amoungst it and I have seen the hungry also help some of them

    I'm sure those whom you have helped have expressed their gratitude to you. For your personal kindness to my countrymen, I also wish to thank you. I do doubt your bias, but not your apparently kind and compassionate nature.

    {"commentId":2196830,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    • 2 votes
    #9.4 - Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:24 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":2191919,"authorDomain":"ntq"}
    The kids shown were about toddler-year or so age.

    Shame. Big shame. I'm awfully sorry to hear that.

    {"commentId":2191919,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"ntq"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#10 - Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:48 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2193394,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}

    Yet the rich people walk pass hungry kids in the street daily and the less unfortunate poor filipino will give them food or a few coins.

    This has been going on since the Americans left, its not new, it will get worse if somethings not done about addressing birth control with free vasectomy's etc, plus firmer control on food prices and raising wages. GMA has tried to make it easier for foreign business to open up in the Philippines but due to the senators scratching their rear ends and accusing others of plunder and corruption this of course puts of foreign investment as well as the corruption at local governance level.

    {"commentId":2193394,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 2 votes
    #10.1 - Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:02 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2195138,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    GMA has tried to make it easier for foreign business to open up in the Philippines but due to the senators scratching their rear ends and accusing others of plunder and corruption this of course puts of foreign investment as well as the corruption at local governance level.

    In other words, you're claiming that GMA and the congressmen are patriotic or responsible officials of the Philippine Islands.

    Let us read excerpts from a rather recent article from Inquirer, a loudly anti-Erap media outfit:

    The government spent $1.5 million for President Gloria and her friends in Congress in her recent visit to the United States.

    They stayed in the best hotels. They rented 30 cars. They paid $207++ per plate for their dinners.

    For their visit, 250 Philippine consulate officials in the US had to be mobilized to serve their every need.

    All of these perks they enjoyed while the country was suffering from the devastation wrought by Typhoon "Frank."

    For the information of the public, the following are the legislators who accompanied the President on that trip: Narciso Santiago III, Alliance for Rural Concerns party list; Monico Puentevella, Bacolod; Albert Garcia, Bataan; Mark Llandro L. Mendoza, Batangas; Hermilando Mandanas, Batangas;

    William Irwin Tieng, Buhay party list; Jose Zubiri III, Bukidnon; Lorna Silverio, Bulacan; Mitzi Cajayon, Caloocan; Diosdado "Dato" Macapagal-Arroyo, Camarines Sur;

    Joseph Santiago, Catanduanes; Elpidio Barzaga Jr., Cavite; Antonio Cuenco, Cebu; Eduardo Gullas, Cebu; Deputy Speaker Raul del Mar, Cebu City; Rommel Amatong, Compostela Valley;

    Speaker Prospero Nograles, Davao City; Antonio Lagdameo, Davao del Norte; Marc Cagas, Davao del Sur; Nelson Dayanghirang, Davao Oriental; Teodoro Coquilla, Eastern Samar;

    Andres Salvacion, Leyte; Ferdinand Martin G. Romualdez, Leyte; Trinidad Apostol, Leyte; Ma. Zenaida Angping, Manila; Amado S. Bagatsing, Manila; Bienvenido Abante Jr., Manila; Rizalina Seachon-Lanete, Masbate; Herminia Ramiro, Misamis Occidental; Yevgeny Emano, Misamis Oriental; Rozzano Rufino Biazon, Muntinlupa; Joseph Gilbert Violago, Nueva Ecija; Deputy Speaker Ma. Amelita C. Villarosa, Occidental Mindoro;cut short their US trip in sympathy for the victims of Typhoon Frank

    Anna York Bondoc, Pampanga; Aurelio Gonzales Jr., Pampanga; Juan Miguel Macapagal Arroyo, Pampanga; Conrado Estrella III, Pangasinan; Ma. Rachel Arenas, Pangasinan; Eduardo Zialcita, Paranaque; Roman Romulo, Pasig City;

    Mary Ann Susano, Quezon City; Nanette Castelo-Daza, Quezon City; Danilo Suarez, Quezon province; Junie Cua, Quirino; Arturo B. Robes, San Jose del Monte; Roger Mercado, Southern Leyte; Munir Arbeson, Sulu; Rex Gatchalian, Valenzuela City; and Antonio Diaz, Zambales and Sen. Miriam Defensor-Santiago.

    Bob, contrary to your claim, the Philippine senators, in general ,are the remaining voices of patriotism and democratic sensibility in government. Gloria Arroyo and most of the congressmen, on the other, are agents of evil on Philippine land. Why you continue to portray Arrobo and her minions as the good characters here, you're the one who has been consistently insulting the Filipinos' intelligence.

    {"commentId":2195138,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    • 1 vote
    #10.2 - Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:56 AM EDT
    {"commentId":2195236,"authorDomain":"rqcemanes"}
    rqcemanesDeleted
    {"commentId":2195590,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    For easy reference, just look at the website of the Commission on Audit and you will find parts of the documented audit findings of misappropriations of public funds. However, there are more of this which are not reported yet because of fear of execution by those who have knowledge of these existing and rampant graft and corruption

    This is very good lead, rqcemanes. It's is so clear to everyone who has just an iota of open-mindedness that this is the worst "leader" the Philippines ever had. I was a bit of an activist for Marcos' time and what's happening now is mind-boggling.

    That's why I can't help but call Gloria Arroyo an agent or evil. What makes it mega worst is the fact that she GRABBED power from the duly elected Erap and CHEATED in the 2004 polls. Arrobo has no legitimate business being President, much less, plundering the nation's wealth.

    It could be that Babel Fish here, is playing the devils advocate for defending Arrobo without taking into consideration the feelings of people who were victimized by this administration.

    Or, that could also be because he is not really aware of the real score of this administration.

    Bob asks for "proof." Would a cunning woman who managed to grab power from the President who garnered the most plurality votes ever, cheated the "King", and continue to withstand a litany of corruption exposes, including the Jose Pidal case, be stupid enough to fatten bank accounts under their names? And who's going to judge her case--members of the judiciary under beck and call?

    There's been too much smoke and too much damage. Amidst the well-funded propaganda machinery of the bogus president Arroyo, the hardships faced by Filipinos as measured by national and international research studies (World Bank, PERC, TI, Pulse Asia, SWS, etc.) serve as the proof.

    {"commentId":2195590,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    • 1 vote
    #10.4 - Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:26 AM EDT
    {"commentId":2201431,"authorDomain":"rqcemanes"}
    rqcemanesDeleted
    {"commentId":2202346,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    In other words, you're claiming that GMA and the congressmen are patriotic or responsible officials of the Philippine Islands

    No you are not read everything that I stated.

    I really did not want to say anything more here because my words and meaning have been twisted. I really do not like debates where people jump the truth with a red herring and do not answer the questions in a sensible fashion. I am looking at Filipino politics from the center point trying to be fair to both sides of the political arena. I have seen all the propaganda thanks from both sides of the arena.

    rqcemanes.

    But still, Babel Fish could not recognize these torments and afflictions to the Filipino people. There must be a reason. I want to guess one, Babel Fish is afraid of deportation. Hahaha.

    Where have I said that? really do you think that my train of thought and research and the fact I live here speak the local language and do not see the torment of the opposition, the people here in the visays seemingly love GMA at the moment and in my partners words "she maybe corrupt but she is less corrupt than the rest".

    Babel Fish is not frightened of deportation I am a world traveller already considering a move to live in China, Shira lanka or maybe India. At present I am learning to speak Chinese, in the other places they speak English. I have obviously the money for the airfare, China would be my first choice because Shenzhen is a much more civilized and modern place to live in. Its just as cheap or in fact slightly more ecomical and there I do not feel like I have a dollar sign printed on my forehead.

    The people that are worried I might be deported are those that rely on my support and friendship. Other than that there is very little keeping me here as I am a single man on my last adventures of my very interesting life and experiences.

    You're again right Jesusa. We all thought then that Marcos was the worst President, to our dismay, Arrobo is not only the worst of the worst but the most cunning and devious one. She appears to the people as though she is the holiest but deep inside her is like a scaly old snake ready to bite you though appears to be tamed outside.

    Who are you to judge are you God, lol

    Marcos holds the position of being the worst and corrupted president (Guinness book of records,lol), where as GMA has not been thoroughly investigated every thing mentioned here is ear say and rants from her opposition, I have often heard this saying "In the eyes of God a person should not be judged and till proved guilty". Yes there is solid proof she Cheated the election. I know there is no smoke without fire but we have yet to find the fire.

    Yes GMA is most probably corrupt but lets not over do the size of corruption because she is in power and you want rid of her because of her possibly corrupt ways. She certainly looks to be corrupt as most of these politician's do.

    I agree she should be removed from power as erap and Marcos was as the Filipino people do not deserve such corruption or cheating. But the propaganda that she is the most corrupt is making a mountain out of a mole hill considering the wealth the Marcos family cheated, swindled and embezzled out of this poverty stricken nation. The scale of that has never been beaten, seemingly conveniently forgot concerning this articles debate.

    Christians love telling the truth and seeing the truth I also love that trait.

    I hate any propaganda of any sort and to my mind we are seeing much propaganda here in the Philippines and it should not mush our minds to the fact that mostly all these politicians here are corrupt and willing to lie and cheat, yes the devils spawn. Why is this so alive in a Catholic and Christian society? I can not hazard a guess.

    That's my last word please feel free to murder my opinion as I will only turn the other cheek

    {"commentId":2202346,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
    • 1 vote
    #10.6 - Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:33 AM EDT
    {"commentId":2208176,"authorDomain":"ntq"}
    Yet the rich people walk pass hungry kids in the street daily and the less unfortunate poor filipino will give them food or a few coins.

    And think they're being very charitable!

    This has been going on since the Americans left, its not new,

    Good point. It's, to a great extent, the aftermath of colonism.

    GMA has tried to make it easier for foreign business to open up in the Philippines but due to the senators scratching their rear ends and accusing others of plunder and corruption this of course puts of foreign investment as well as the corruption at local governance level.

    All the reasons why "foreign investment" - even when it's established - does not yield any benefits for the masses in developing countries. It's more or less the same picture here in Iran, Richard. That's why I've learned not to place the blame utterly on the rulers. The nation is just as guilty.

    {"commentId":2208176,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"ntq"}
    • 1 vote
    #10.7 - Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:20 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":2207516,"authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    You're again right Jesusa. We all thought then that Marcos was the worst President, to our dismay, Arrobo is not only the worst of the worst but the most cunning and devious one. She appears to the people as though she is the holiest but deep inside her is like a scaly old snake ready to bite you though appears to be tamed outside.

    Rqcemanes, I grew up in a household where Marcos was a villain for imposing Martial Law. My dad used to tell this story of how the Philippines could have averted Martial Law had the late Pres. Diosdado Macapagal, Arrobo's father, won re-election. You see, my parents were more or less passionately pro-Liberal Party and Macapagal, of course, was LP's head. My dad would repeatedly tell of why Marcos won and Macapagal lost in the 1965 elections, which story goes: Marcos won by a slim margin because he courted the Iglesia ni Cristo block vote while Macapagal refused to forget his "dignity" and stoop so low as to meet up with and kiss the hand of the INC founder.

    Now, I ain't saying courting the INC or other religious groups' vote is bad. My point is that Pres. Macapagal kept his "dignity" by refusing to START the trend. I mean, Pres. Macapagal had the dignity and patriotism NOT to perpetuate himself in power at ANY cost.

    So, you see, I CANNOT be inherently biased against Arrobo because I grew up with the perspective that her father is a righteous man: for which reason, I voted for her as Senator in the 1990s.

    We can also see how the father and the daughter Macapagals are CHASMS apart in terms of integrity and upholding principles. Super prim and proper the father while super devious and kapal the daughter for grabbing power from Erap AND cheating FPJ in 2004. And imagine spending $1.5 million for that US state visit junket. Isang platong food one month sweldo na ng lower middle class na Pilipino yon ah! They did it as well in Spain (?) when Arroyo brought the 40 thieves who defeated the last impeachment attempt. Obviously, the junkets are meant to keep those who help her stay in illegitimate power happy.

    Until now, the Marcoses are still very rich

    I'm baffled how come not much has been proven in court against the Marcoses? I mean meron na but not all, right? Yama@!$%#a treasure nga ba? Haha. There's no paper trail, considering that they're already out of power their corruption could still not be proved, how much more this Arrobo ni power with the Judiciary and Lower House under her beck and call. There's been a litany of exposes, but the supporting witnesses and evidence are always made or paid to disappear. Nonetheless, we know by the smoke na pilit lumalabas, and by social indicators garnered by various research studies.

    There must be a reason. I want to guess one, Babel Fish is afraid of deportation. Hahaha.

    You appear to be kidding here but I think there's a grain of truth in it. We all know how things work here in our country and I'm pretty sure Babelfish's partner has advised him to be somewhat friendly to authorities. Kung tayo nga nagiingat, how much more a foreigner.

    {"commentId":2207516,"threadId":"303090","contentId":"1627254","authorDomain":"JesusaBernardo"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#11 - Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:11 PM EDT
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